Why and how Boris Yeltsin chose a team of Yegor Gaidar in September 1991? In an interview with the editor-in-chief Business FM Ilya Kopelevich and CEO of “Rumedia” Mikhail Berger said one of the key participants in those events, the former Secretary of state of the RSFSR and the first Deputy Prime Minister Gennady Burbulis.
At that moment, when it was completed with the coup, when in fact collapsed, the Federal government, whether Boris Yeltsin’s performance, what will he do with economic reform?
Gennadii Burbulis: with regard to economic ideas, they were not so hard to identify. We need real independence of enterprises, have a variety of forms of ownership, we need new laws to get their rights and businesses, and emerging cooperative private business.
It was not the moment when the leaders, for example, Yeltsin or Gorbachev, clearly would have said: we end up with socialism, we must return to capitalism?
Gennadii Burbulis: with regard to the respected Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev, he believed that it’s all new thinking, perestroika, glasnost, democratization — leads us to a renewed socialism that it can be done, because we together, knowing now all the bad things in our history, take this on. Boris in this respect was a man of much more thoughtful and deep, despite its peculiar thought-speech system, which, by the way, for each policy priority. He spoke very little, but really studied, listened, passed the school of new thinking and not only in the political, legal, administrative, but also in the economic sphere.
Former Secretary of state of the RSFSR and the first Deputy Prime Minister Gennady Burbulis (left), chief editor of Business FM Ilya kopelevich and CEO of “Rumedia” Michael Berger. Photo: Hope Zagruzka/BFM.EN
When Yeltsin for the first time publicly, at least in the circle of friends, recorded whether there was a clear articulation that we turn the other way? Or it all happened in an evolutionary, gradually, there was no articulation?
Gennadii Burbulis: It was the fifth Congress that we have experienced a coup, when on August 22-23, the Soviet Union ceased to exist, and what is even more sad when the organizers, the performers of the coup has deprived us of the possibility of an evolutionary transition from the Soviet Empire in the new state quality because they blocked the signing of the prepared in the throes of a new draft of the Treaty of Union of Sovereign States. These days and work has begun on analysis of the situation in which we are, what we should do. Creating the position of Secretary of state, formed a state Council. There is such a traditional reproach, first of all to Boris Yeltsin and all of us: it is just a celebration over the fact that the coup failed, have generated some unjustified pause. We said and now say: it was necessary immediately to dissolve the Councils from top to bottom, it was necessary to immediately take any document on lustration, it was necessary to take power into their own hands. But to do that, we need to understand what we are situation, first of all, key issues of life support: what to feed, how to prepare for the heating season as to revive the already mostly devastated economy and poluvreme production capacity to compensate for all these explicit and implicit budget deficits. When we organized the defense of the White house, we were told that the economy needs certainty, we still swim in the pool with a completely unknown composition. Was talking about Gaidar, and of young economists of Leningrad, which later was named group Chubais. August 19, Alexei Golovkov, our colleague, my assistant, says: “Come, Gaidar and his colleagues.” Well, shook, met. On cross-question each other on what to do next, Yegor, Gaidar — Business FM) says: “When all this madness is over, let’s meet, we need to discuss some joint work.” Shortly once we met, we agreed that creating the group goes to the dacha in the Arkhangelsk and fast, but sufficiently deeply, systematically and long term offers the program.
While ideological and national reformer, in which, by the way, I believe, was Yavlinsky. He in the spring of 1991 was the government in Power. Was Saburov, Deputy Prime Minister. Why did the idea, the need, and Boris Nikolaevich supported it, to land in the Archangel of the people with whom he met on August 19?
Gennadii Burbulis: Because the group Saburova, and a group of Yavlinsky also the same work received.
Boris did not know Gaidar to 19 August. How it began, why it happened? Brought to you Golovkov, Yeltsin gave you.
Gennadii Burbulis: I bring Gaidar to Yeltsin, had to go to work. Boris about Gaidar found out when this work was already done, and under the auspices of the State Council, this program concept was discussed. But Yavlinsky and honored people — with Zaboravim and many other high conscientious professionals — our task was to provide the conditions for each group of like-minded professionals could offer their program.
The word “capitalism” Gaidar said? Another was academics, that is, to select from. Gaidar was the unknown.
Gennadii Burbulis: Why did we have to hang on the chest of the shirt with the word “capitalism”? And we are not talking about verbal self-determination: the curse of socialism has collapsed, so we are now building that the wealth of capitalism. We understand the environment in which it occurs, we know that for all key decisions we will have to return to the boiler of the Congress of people’s deputies RFSR, therefore, this term is used as a stimulus, no point was not. The more interesting question is how did happened whether cooperation or competition between these three groups. Still Grigory Yavlinsky says that I offered him the Premiership. There was never such a direct offer Gregory A. Premiership for two reasons. The fact that the coup shattered all our hopes and some illusions that you can economic program to do in space has broken into pieces, into fragments of the Soviet area. The second devastated the Treasury, the chaos in the minds, the lack of professional solidarity relationship including between the governments of the other republics. Grigory Yavlinsky was very important to him, and in this sense I respect him, an irresistible setup: in no event it is impossible even to think about, to go in reform, ahead of the rest of the Republic, say lyrically, strides, balance, tighten, adjust, this all needs to be protected.
Former Secretary of state of the RSFSR and the first Deputy Prime Minister Gennady Burbulis. Photo: Hope Zagruzka/BFM.EN
There was, in any case, the scenario of the reforms in the Soviet Union, not Russia?
Gennadii Burbulis: Yes. Could so to think? Of course. Noble it was to think so? Of course. It was right to think so? No. And I repeat, we — Boris and the asset is well understood that the responsibility for an exit from this situation lies on Yeltsin and Russia, but more and more I realized that any delay increases the threat of repartition of the Russian legacy in uncontrollable forms. How to prevent it? The radical reforms. Who can these reforms to be formulated and implemented? I think this lesson is very relevant today. What was a significant group Gaidar, and why I think this is our common merit? First: they had sufficient insight into all the ills and problems of the Soviet economy. Second, they knew the principles, rules and models of management of market economy, including in its transitional stages. And third, most importantly, they worked not only on the program, and were also working on legal and regulatory frameworks. I managed to convince Boris Yeltsin that this work program should be done by those who developed. The classic division into experts, so-called Salamov and supervisors, to skilled, seasoned managers to our situation was unacceptable because the scale of the task and the nature of this ultimacy of the situation demanded everything to combine. All positions occupied by people who well understood what needs to be done that can not be postponed for a week or for a month or three months.
Indeed, it is almost entrenched myth that Yavlinsky proposed to Boris Yeltsin, Yavlinsky, for a number of reasons, not agreed and has since become a fundamental democratic opposition. You just said that there was no such proposition. However, any basis for Yavlinsky to think so was, then, a person of Yeltsin, too, was interested in it, he talked to him. The conversations in any case was.
Gennadii Burbulis: I’m Not sure.
That is, when you and your participation in such consultation was not?
Gennadii Burbulis: No. We knew well Grigorii Alekseevich work in our first government. Wonderful, educated, intelligent, intellectual. But when we need to move from notes and conversations to practical matters, it is overgrown so different “but”. Just you ask that may be of interest for many, I say about another. There is a qualitatively different type develop decision-making and their implementation in situations that I call the ultimate. And there is personality, which no one specifically could neither prepare nor to see nor to persuade or to convince. Economically we were in the abyss, and the abyss that no lectures, no talking or waiting for a miracle — perhaps roam — it was impossible to overcome. Once again, there was a program clear, you are right, with the emphasis on the independence of the Russian actions. Wrote the program instrumental: draft decrees, draft laws, regulations, implementation mechanism, monitoring, maintenance, and monitoring. 15 November 1991 the first meeting of the government reforms under the chairmanship of President Boris Yeltsin, President of the government. These powers he received at the fifth Congress after a fundamental report and its complex discussion. By the way, where we first articulated that we are talking about the formation of a new social state system with a new way of life, which is based on all the classic settings you loved capitalism.
Let us return to September 1991. I remember very well the General feeling of the impending economic chaos, the victory of Yeltsin after the coup, and the lack of it in September and answer the main question, what will happen to the economy.
Gennadii Burbulis: Boris Yeltsin in Sochi. All are puzzled.
When he was gone.
Gennadii Burbulis: Defeated the coup, the footage of Yeltsin on the tank the whole world knows, have rolled up their sleeves this victory to strengthen — and suddenly this pause. But I had to figure out what to do. Egor (Gaidar — Business FM) reports on the state results, make a decision this program is to be based. I take this document and fly in Bocharov Ruchey in Sochi. Three days from eight in the morning until eight in the evening we together with Boris Nikolayevich, page by page, this document was read and discussed. I’m not an economist, Yes, I was a customer of the work, Yes, I every day in the evening came, we discussed what happens. As Secretary, I have personified this decision of the state Council. Boris said it should be done exactly so, who will do it? Here is the backbone, it is necessary to think about the Prime Minister.
As far as he was unsure how aware the risk of this choice?
Gennadii Burbulis: We talk, and I’ve called SCS: well, what?
Who’s been calling?
Gennadii Burbulis: Sergei Shakhrai, Gaidar Shokhin, Golovkov. Let’s think to prepare for the Congress, prepare a report on radical economic reforms and to consider the structure of the Cabinet and leadership.
Yeltsin, the final decision was taken after these three days in Sochi?
Gennadii Burbulis: No, he made the decision that this program compelling. We agreed that he will meet with Yegor Gaidar, and this meeting — is also the story, in my opinion: a man of 35 years, the magazine “Communist”, “Pravda” newspaper — meeting, talking. What unites these two very different people — 60-year-old party worker of the hierarchy of a totalitarian Empire and lover of books with an exotic name, young man? Yeltsin was surprised and delighted how Gaidar state it clearly and formulate its position. I think he was pleased and admired the clarity of mind and the ability to refrain from some details, nuances, highlighting the essence of the problem that must be addressed, methods that need to act. Second Yeltsin knew about Gaidar, whose son, grandson and so on. But I am absolutely sure that not the last role in the choice of Boris Nikolayevich Yegor played two circumstances. First, with all the romance of the Gaidar creativity at the dawn of this our dreams of socialist happiness, with all the exploits of Timur, with all the morality of service, heroism, Yeltsin being a man is very thin on this rumor, which could be called “the hum of history”, felt that if trust Gaidar key sector of the economy in the new government, the name and pedigree that is associated with this romance — this will be interesting, it would be nice. But not only that Gaidar in his childhood he spent every summer at grandma and grandpa we in Sverdlovsk, ran along the street Chapaeva, then there is a close family trail — he Uralets. Absolutely stunning, an unexpected complex of cultural codes and of course, advanced economic thought.
