Dean of liberal higher school of Economics, honorary Chairman of the Council on foreign and defense policy Sergei Karaganov said in an interview with Spiegel (English translation):
Spiegel: Sergey, NATO is planning to expand its activities in the Eastern European region of NATO…
Karaganov: I was 8 years ago talking about a situation closer to war.
Spiegel: You mean from the moment when war broke out in Georgia?
Karaganov: even then, the confidence between the great warring countries was close to zero. Russia had launched then the process of re. Since then, the situation in terms of confidence only worsened. We had been warned NATO not need to approach the borders of Ukraine. Luckily Russia managed to stop NATO’s advance in this direction. Thus the danger of war in Europe in the medium term, until reduced. But the propaganda that is now being implemented, is very similar to a state of war.
Spiegel: I hope, in the sense of propaganda You mean including Russia?
Karaganov: the Russian media in this sense are kept modest in comparison with NATO. And most importantly, you must understand that for Russia it is very important sense of security from an external enemy. We need to be ready for anything. This is why our media sometimes exaggerate. And what does the West? You reproach us that we are aggressive. The situation is similar to the one that was in the late 70s, early 80s.
Spiegel: You mean the deployment of Soviet medium-range missiles and the reaction of Americans to these actions?
Karaganov: the Soviet Union then almost collapsed from the inside, but nevertheless decided to place missiles SS-20. Starting a completely unnecessary crisis. Now exactly the same thing the West does. You appease countries such as Poland, Lithuania and Latvia that place missile systems. But this is because they absolutely will not help, it is a provocation. In the case that will begin a full-scale crisis, these will be destroyed by us in the first place. Russia will never fight on its own territory!
Spiegel:… that is, if I now understand correctly – will Russia attack? To move forward?
Karaganov: You have to understand – now is completely different, new weapons. The situation is much worse than 30-40 years ago.
Spiegel: President Putin is trying to convince his people that Europe is almost planning an attack on Russia. But this is absurd! Don’t you think?
Karaganov: of Course, it is somewhat exaggerated. But the Americans are now openly talking about the fact that sanctions against Russia are designed to change the power in Russia. It is an open aggression, we must respond.
Spiegel: You recently headed a presidential Council issued a public report to the President. I got acquainted with him in detail. In it You often say about the only possible path for Russia – the return of the former power. The idea is clear, but what are Your specific proposals?
Karaganov: first and foremost we do a good job – you want to resist the further destabilization of the world community in the future. And we want the status of a great power, want to get it back.
Sorry, we can’t just abandon it – 300 years have left their mark in our genes. We want to become the center of much of Eurasia, a place where there is peace and cooperation. This Eurasia will belong to the continent of Europe.
Spiegel: now, the Europeans don’t trust Russia, don’t understand her policy, considering it strange. Your guide in Moscow we do not understand.
Karaganov: You have to understand – we now trust exactly 0 percent. After all the recent disappointments, it’s natural. Based on this. We are doing something that could be called a tactical alert. You have to realize that we’re smarter, stronger and more determined than you think.
Spiegel: for Example, we strongly, and unpleasantly, surprised by Your recent approach to military action in Syria. As if we do not act together, but still in some sense cooperating. But recently, You took part of his troops, even without letting us know. So trust not working…
Karaganov: It was a very strong, wonderful step of my guide. We operate on the basis that we are stronger in this region. Russian may not be as strong in the economy, in the art of negotiation, but we are great warriors.
You have in Europe a political system that will not stand the test of time. You are unable to adapt to new challenges. You are too a touchdown. Your Chancellor once said that our President is detached from reality. So – you are too real in this sense.
Spiegel: it is Easy to see that you are in Russia, actively rejoice in our failures. In particular, as regards our problem with the refugees. Why?
Karaganov: Yes, many of my colleagues often make fun of you and your problems, but I kept telling them that we should not be arrogant. Oh well – what do you want: European elite was looking for a confrontation with us – they found it. Because we won’t help Europe, but easily could in the issue of refugees.
For example, we could close the borders – in this sense, we can act 10 times better than you Europeans. But instead you are trying to cooperate with Turkey. It’s a shame for you! We stick to our rigid lines, with the success of the practice.
Spiegel: You say constantly that you are disappointed with Europe and what is happening there. But Russia recently like in Europe? Or would You like Europe the times of Adenauer and De Gaulle and surprised by the change?
Karaganov: Yes, do not tell me the majority of Europeans want the European, not modern. In the coming decades, Europe is clearly not an example for us, what we want and what we need.
Spiegel: Well, that is You to the fact that the accumulation of troops of NATO in the Baltic countries this is the case?
Kharnov: the Idea that we are ready to start a confrontation – it’s idiotic. Why NATO gathers the troops there, tell me why?
Have you ever imagine what would happen to these troops in the case, if you really will have the place open confrontation? This is your symbolic support of the Baltic countries, no more. If NATO starts aggression against country having a nuclear Arsenal like ours – you will be punished.
Spiegel: There are plans to revive the dialogue between Russia and NATO. As I understand it, You do not take such ideas seriously?
Karaganov: Such meetings are more illegitimate. In addition, NATO has evolved over time into something completely different. You started as a Union of democratic States to protect themselves. But gradually it all turned into the idea of a permanent extension. When we needed the dialogue in 2008 and 2014, the chance for a dialogue we do not provide.
Spiegel:… let me count… You mean the crisis in Georgia and Ukraine? Clear. Tell me, in Your report constantly meet such terms as “honor”, “valor”, “courage”, “dignity”… it’s political vocabulary?
Karaganov: that’s what really has value for the Russian people. In the world of Putin, and also in my world, is simply unimaginable that a woman’s honor can be violated in a most obscene way.
Spiegel: You are referring to the ill-fated Christmas night in Cologne?
Karaganov: Russia men who would have tried to do something similar, would be killed on the spot. The error lies in the fact that, as the Germans and Russians spent many years in search of some universal values, not realizing in fact what it was. We, too, in Soviet times, was looking for socialism. Your search for democracy is very similar to the our search of socialism.
<ins data-ad-client=”ca-pub-9823569451097165″ data-ad-slot=”3511172711″ data-ad-format=”auto” data-adsbygoogle-status=”done”></ins>
Spiegel: what do You see as the errors of the Russian foreign policy in recent time?
Karaganov: that in the near past, we had no coherent policy towards our closest neighbours – the former Soviet countries. The only thing we did was subventionierung and bought elite. The money is partially slid – on both sides. And, as shown by the conflict in Ukraine, so it is impossible to avoid a global crisis.
Our second mistake – our policy for too long has been focused on the correction of errors 90.
Spiegel: one Last question. Is there a chance that Russia will in the near future to find ways to cooperate?
Karaganov: of open and Direct confession of our wrong you can not be expected – because we’re right. At the moment Russia turned to Asia and European great power. But at the moment I can say that we should to some extent again to turn to Europe. It’s the only thing I can say.
