Professor Anatoly klyosov continues to respond to reader comments KM.RU
In mid-may on the website KM.RU was published my article “the Slavs: the discovery of geneticists turns conventional ideas”. Comments from our readers deserve separate articles of Professor Klyosov.
The first publication and the response of the author
Someone “Nicolas” wrote – “and with such ancestors such pathetic results in the present.”
And what “poor results”? What are the criteria for this “defeatist”? Russia is “pathetic”? Who built the greatest country in the world by area? Won many victories in its history? Returning Crimea, despite the irresponsibility of their leaders in the past?
What other country, the descendants of the Aryans, more powerful? The population is happier and better off? India? Iran? The Country Of Mesopotamia? Syria? Iraq? This Nicolas even his nickname made “Western,” following Freud. Here it is – a pathetic result, the ancestors would be ashamed of this.
Who will be the Patriarch of the clan?
Well, the author, not understanding, asks a question, not making a definitive statement as inherent to the ignorant: “I don’t really understand. If the “pure” Slav take his wife’s “pure” piglike, and their daughter marry a Chinaman, by whom is born their son. And who is the Patriarch of the family, which will go from this son?”…
Let’s start with the fact that “pure-blooded Slav” is an illusion. Slav is the native language of the Slavic group. It could be Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Polish, Serb, Slovak, Czech and so on. On the other hand, it can be a carrier of haplogroup (number) R1a, I2a, N1c1, R1b, E1b, G2a and so on. So who is “pure-blooded Slav” who asks the narrator?
Well, let’s say, that carriers of haplogroup I, a mitochondrial group H. He married pygmy woman (sophisticated, however, taste, I have asked the question), mtDNA L. they Have a daughter is born, naturally, with the mtDNA L. If she would marry Chinese haplogroup O, a son with a Y-chromosome haplogroup and mtDNA L.
If after that there will be a global catastrophe, mankind will be the bottleneck, and will survive only offspring of that son, it’s About the masculine and feminine from his wife, no matter what haplogroup she was.
On a mitochondrial DNA genealogy
Review: “would Like to see in subsequent publications on KM.<URL> Professor klyosov would stay at the genetic contribution that women make to the continuation and advancement of the human race. Hard to believe that the role of women in this regard, reduced to the role of homemakers, giving the life and the poetry of life.”
No, not only. Creative work, which together with the Keeper of the hearth, giving the life and the poetry of life – a lot. Probably the maximum that can be given. You can mention “to build a house, plant a tree and give birth to a son,” but what does DNA genealogy? I hardly need to stay in subsequent publications on the genetic contribution of women in the continuation of the human race”, everyone knows. Moreover, there are thousands and thousands of people who willingly can write about it. Why am I in this crowd? I write what no one else will write. I see this as its task.
I could rephrase the wish of the author of the comment that I would like to see in subsequent publications, good examples of the use of mtDNA in DNA genealogy. I would like that too, but the situation in science in order are not ripe.
Men’s migration was, that behind them they left a clear trail of the Y chromosome, with their haplogroups and haplotypes. But female migration in this sense was not. There are no such loops, and, apparently, could not be. Now I will explain. Digging up ancient graves in a particular culture, and all the DNA belong to the same Y-chromosome haplogroup. For example, Yamna culture – some R1b. Andronovo culture – some R1a. Culture beaker – R1b alone.
Syntaktische culture – some R1a. And each one has a range of mtDNA are all different, although there are occasional repetitions. Well, there is some DNA-genealogy?
Let me give a simple but illustrative example. In our family Clesiv village in Kursk region, the share of R1a is almost 100%, and mtDNA are different. The explanation here is quite simple. In 1639 the land of the Royal decree was issued to the son of the boyar Ivan Klyosov for military service. He founded the estate, then the family village, and its founder had haplogroup R1a. And everything else has defined social, caste status of the founder and Patriarchal structures of the time.
The village was caste status is closed, isolated, land was gained, ancestors and bequeathed to others (including other haplogroups, which, of course, did not know) were not allowed there. And male descendants had, of course, only haplogroup R1a.
The village came only women from outside as the bride and wife, and from the village went to the surrounding villages only bride and wife. So mtDNA twisted his carousel through the village for centuries, and Y-DNA (i.e. Y-chromosome, and with them the corresponding haplotype and haplogroup) remained the same source. So we have 100% R1a, and many different mtDNA in the same village in the same region.
Another example: from the harem came out one male haplogroup and multiple female mtDNA. The larger the harem, the more different mtDNA came out. Another example: my wife usually went to the village to her husband, and thus mtDNA is again dispersed over large areas, wives and concubines were brought from long hikes (“Dyvys, Mykola, a neighbor of the Turkish campaign brought”).
Here and added Anatolian mtDNA in the Cossack village. Another example: in the pit archeological culture from Dating 4700-5300 years ago, all twelve men’s fossil skeletal remains had the same haplogroup R1b, all fourteen women (with the addition of the two female samples) only in four cases have the same haplogroup (U5a), but with three different deeper subclade, the rest were H2b, H6a, H13a, T2c, T2a two, U4, U4a, W6, W3a.
It is clear that no issue of identification of areas and times of the ancient migrations of mtDNA just yet. Furthermore, migration not associated with the mtDNA, with the exception that the presence of relatively isolated mtDNA in the Americas, Eurasia and South-East Asia.
This does not mean that mtDNA does not give any information and their measure, and study is useless. It is not, and can give good examples but those are usually special cases.
You just have to clearly formulate questions that can be answered using mtDNA, and we need to understand what they will be like those answers. Usually, the questions are: what mtDNA is, in a certain region? And the answer, for example: “In the village of Sarajevo, Pereslavl district of the Yaroslavl region revealed the following mtDNA haplogroups: H, W, I, H, V2, H, H, U, X, T*, T*, W, H, H, W, T1”. It is clear that no DNA genealogy is not here, and the experiment was not expected.
So when Dana writes in comments – “But the trouble is, all write exclusively about labels in the male Y-chromosome, and the labels in the female X chromosome only mention in passing. But the offspring – the result of Y+X, and, therefore, to consider ethnic groups with R1a can be coupled only with the female DNA, it is partly right that the labels in the Y-chromosome write much more often. The reason for this we already know. Then she is mistaken, the offspring is not only Y+X and X+H. Just in the first case, a boy is born, second girl. Finally, the definition of ethnic groups is not relevant. Haplogroup ethnicity does not form, she accompanies him, and, as a rule, not one. Read more about it below.
About Ukrainians
Quote: “the Ukrainians appeared in the 20th century, what do you think of genetics?”. Paraphrasing – the Soviet people appeared in 1918, what do you think of genetics? I don’t know what to think about it genetics, but DNA genealogy clearly shows that the Russians and the Ukrainians, and Belarusians have the same origin. All of the above for about 50% of haplogroup R1a, 15-20% of I2a, just South Baltic N1c1 is somewhat different, for obvious geographical reasons: ethnic Russians in the European part average of 14%, Belarusians 10%, Ukrainians 7%. But this is an average, and for different regions of all three countries, the content of N1c1 is imposed in varying degrees.
For example, in the Kursk region the contents N1c1 is not more than 4-5% lower than the average for Ukraine. So difference and there is nothing to seek, there is none.
The fact that Ukraine as a state emerged only in the 20th century, it is true, but the peculiarities of everyday life of many inhabitants on the territory of modern Ukraine, and differences them from the Russian were visible for centuries. As, however, and other parts of ancient Rus ‘ and earlier period.
